The Dr. Rod Berger Show

Dr. Rod Berger talks with Dr. Stephen Zunes on activism, civil resistance, and Western Sahara storylines. 
This conversation explores how Dr. Stephen Zunes’ upbringing in a Christian pacifist, politically engaged household shaped his lifelong focus on human rights, international law, and nonviolent resistance. Host Dr. Rod Berger, editor at large at Fair Observer, and Zunes also discuss Western Sahara, Israel-Palestine, democracy, polarization, and why Zunes still believes large-scale civic action can change history.
GuestDr. Stephen Zunes — Professor of politics and director of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of San Francisco, speaking about his background, scholarship, activism, and views on civil resistance
Key topicsIn this episode: Zunes traces his worldview to a Christian pacifist household shaped by civil rights activism, anti-Vietnam War protests, environmental concern, and early Palestinian solidarity.We discuss: How his parents’ backgrounds—one from a Greek immigrant line and one from a conservative Southern family—led to an unusual but deeply consistent social justice ethic.
Zunes shares: How growing up in Chapel Hill and reading the newspaper as a child helped make political curiosity and international affairs feel natural.
In this episode: His decision to move from organizing into academia came from realizing he was better as an intellectual than a movement organizer.
We discuss: Why Western Sahara became a central focus for him as a test case for international law, self-determination, and opposition to territorial conquest.
Zunes shares: His view that Western Sahara and Palestine are two important examples of foreign belligerent occupation that are often treated very differently in public discourse.
We discuss: How he sees support for Western Sahara as potentially strengthening the pro-Palestinian movement by centering international law rather than sectarian argument.Zunes shares: His experience debating John Bolton at the Oxford Union on whether military force is an effective way to promote democracy, and why he argues that civil society and nonviolent action are usually more effective.
We discuss: Why the United States and Britain should examine their own support for authoritarian regimes before advocating military intervention abroad.
Zunes shares: His optimism rooted in historical examples, including civil rights, Vietnam, South Africa, and East Timor, where sustained pressure changed policy.
We discuss: The role of polarization, which he sees as dangerous but also potentially transformative, depending on how people shape it.
Zunes shares: Why he remains hopeful about younger generations, whom he sees as more open to socialism, social democracy, and critiques of militarism.
Timestamps
02:16 — Rod introduces the show and Stephen Zunes
03:37 — Zunes’ academic background and family roots
04:20 — A Christian pacifist household shaped by civil rights and anti-war politics
07:16 — Parents’ unusual pro-Palestinian stance in the Deep South
08:53 — Learning politics at the dinner table and from newspapers
11:26 — Chapel Hill, Oberlin, and becoming a political science scholar
13:35 — Why Western Sahara became a defining issue
14:34 — Civil rights, Namibia, East Timor, and the logic of solidarity
15:31 — Why Western Sahara matters for international law
16:55 — Comparing Western Sahara, Palestine, and U.S. double standards
19:17 — Why obscurity made Western Sahara a compelling cause
21:47 — Activism, voice, and how scholarship enters public debate
22:30 — The Oxford debate with John Bolton
24:44 — Why civil society beats foreign military intervention
26:33 — Why cynicism is hard to avoid in a militarized world
28:15 — Movements that changed history from Vietnam to South Africa
30:40 — Why these perspectives are becoming more mainstream
31:25 — Concern about U.S. civic fragility and democratic decline
33:25 — Why authoritarian systems can also produce skepticism and resistance
35:20 — Polarization as a force that can produce reform or reaction
39:07 — Grassroots voter mobilization and the importance of turnout
40:12 — Final reflection on whether nonviolent struggle still wins
41:20 — Why Zunes remains optimistic about the long term
43:13 — Younger generations, social democracy, and anti-militarism
44:10 — Closing thoughts on the value of debate and informed disagreement
TOP INSIGHTS
Universal principles are stronger than issue-by-issue loyalty
Judge every occupation, annexation, or intervention by the same standard: international law. A consistent, principle-based approach is harder to dismiss as selective outrage and creates stronger coalitions across conflicts.
Overlooked issues can offer meaningful opportunities for advocacy
Western Sahara’s relative obscurity allowed focused expertise and advocacy to develop. Importance is not always reflected by the amount of public attention an issue receives.
Nonviolent movements create sustainable political change
Civil resistance is not merely symbolic. Organized citizens, durable networks, and sustained pressure can produce legitimacy and lasting policy change more effectively than military intervention.
Polarization can lead to authoritarianism or reform
Polarization is not inherently destructive. Its consequences depend on how social energy is organized and whether democratic institutions can channel conflict toward constructive change.
Democracy depends on local participation
Democratic decline often begins with disengagement from local institutions such as school boards, city councils, and community organizations. Participation is a form of democratic maintenance.
Historical memory can produce realistic hope
Optimism does not have to mean ignoring present challenges. Past movements—including civil rights, anti-war, anti-apartheid, and labor movements—show that organized pressure can change systems that once appeared permanent.
Younger generations are questioning inherited political assumptions
Younger people are increasingly willing to challenge conventional ideas about capitalism, militarism, socialism, and foreign policy. Their skepticism may represent a broader shift in political expectations.

In this episode of the Dr. Rod Berger Show, presented by Fair Observer, Rod sits down with sociocultural anthropologist Professor John Friedman to discuss his sudden dismissal from a university position, the broader crisis facing higher education, and why the humanities still matter more than ever. John shares the story of being let go during a shocking campus purge, what it felt like to lose a long-built academic home, and why he refused to return to the same classroom without first acknowledging the harm done. From there, the conversation expands into a wider examination of institutional priorities, neoliberal management, the rise of AI and engineering over the humanities, and the future of critical thinking in education. Rod and John also explore:
Why higher education is becoming more transactional
How universities are reshaping themselves around market demand
The danger of losing humanities and social sciences
Why education should be about liberation, not just workforce preparation
The impact of social media and algorithms on individuality and community
How anthropology helps us understand the many ways of being human
John also reflects on his move into social media, the role of public anthropology, and why people need more exposure to disciplines that challenge how they think about the world.
Key Topics
Being fired from a university classroom
The collapse of humanities programs
The purpose of education
Critical thinking and civic responsibility
Individualism vs. collective society
The future of universities and teaching
Public anthropology and cultural understanding
Notable Quotes
“Ask big questions in small places.”
“The cutting out of the humanities and the social sciences is essentially an attack on critical thinking.”
“Education should be a form of liberation.”
“There are many different ways to live in the world.”
Guest
Professor John Friedman
Sociocultural anthropologist, public lecturer, and advocate for humanistic inquiry
Connect with John Friedman
Find him on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube as: @ProfessorJohnT.Friedman
About the Dr. Rod Berger Show
The Dr. Rod Berger Show explores timely ideas, culture, education, leadership, and the human stories shaping our world.

In this conversation, Dr. Rod Berger and Martin Plaut delve into Plaut's rich family history, with a particular focus on his father's experiences as a refugee from Nazi Germany. They explore the significance of family legacies, the emotional weight of symbolic objects, and the contrasting experiences of past generations with the present day. The discussion highlights the importance of storytelling in understanding personal and collective histories, as well as the challenges of processing information in a fast-paced world. In this conversation, Martin Plaut shares his journey from growing up in apartheid South Africa to becoming a journalist and advocate for social justice. He reflects on the profound influence of his family, particularly his mother, in shaping his values and commitment to fighting injustice. The discussion delves into the normalization of apartheid, the role of education and activism in challenging systemic oppression, and the transition to journalism as a means of storytelling. Plaut emphasizes the importance of representing marginalized voices and highlights the ongoing issue of modern slavery in Africa, urging listeners to recognize and address these injustices. The Dr. Rod Berger Show is presented by Fair Observer.

Sebastian Schäffer wrote a book with his mentor arguing that the Balkans belong in Europe. Not eventually. Immediately. The mentor, former Austrian Vice-Chancellor Erhard Busek, died in March 2022, weeks after Russian tanks crossed into Ukraine and the argument the two of them had spent years making became the most urgent question on the continent. Schäffer is still making it.
Born in Munich, he gave his career to somebody else's neighborhood. He directs the Institute for the Danube Region and Central Europe in Vienna, a think tank founded in 1953 and older than most of the European Union, and serves as Secretary General of the Danube Rectors' Conference, a network of more than sixty universities across the region. He founded SSC Europe in 2011 to run simulations and strategic foresight, which is also how he thinks: run the scenario forward, then ask what happens next.
His own contribution to the field is a reversal. The Dilemma of Simultaneity described how post-Soviet states had to build democracy, markets, and nations all at once. Schäffer turned the mirror around and pointed it at Brussels, which now has to reform enlargement, reform itself, and become a real geopolitical power at the same time and under fire. In a July 2025 essay for Fair Observer, he wrote about an editor who asked him to stop using the word "disinformation" because it sounded too political. He refused, and called that kind of softening death by a thousand footnotes.
What we get into:
Why a man born in Munich built his life around the countries still waiting at Europe's door
What "immediately" costs a person who has been saying it for fifteen years while institutions say "eventually"
Why he treats a single word as worth fighting an editor over, and what he thinks gets lost when we let language go quiet

Dr. Rod Berger sits down with Sam Daley-Harris to peel back the advocacy efforts of a man who has spent a lifetime propelling the power of voice in the pursuit of a healthy and equitable democracy. 
Sam Daley-Harris founded the anti-poverty lobby RESULTS in 1980, co-founded the Microcredit Summit Campaign in 1995, and founded Civic Courage in 2012. The paperback edition of his book Reclaiming Our Democracy: Every Citizen’s Guide to Transformational Advocacy was named an editor’s pick by Publisher’s Weekly BookLife and will be released January 14th, 2025.  Kirkus Reviews wrote: "Overall, [the author's] analysis of effective action is as persuasive as it is accessible, and his call to democratic participation is inspiring. A handbook for aspiring activists that readers will find to be both inspiring and practical."  Daley-Harris has been interviewed on NPR’s Here and Now and on PBS’s Laura Flanders and Friends.
After the 2024 election, Tom Nichols wrote in The Atlantic, “….Americans must stay engaged and make their voices heard at every turn….”  Liz Cheney tweeted, “….Citizens across this country…must now be the guardrails of democracy.”  But most Americans still wonder how, and even if, they can make a difference between elections.  What are the options?  1) Protesting?  Vital, but usually not the long game, 2) Signing email form letters, which only 3% of Congressional staff say is highly effective. Just gestures, 3) Taking a 2-year nap until the next election?  Sadly, the preferred route for many.  But few know about number 4) transformational advocacy, which helps you change an issue and changes you in the process.  
In Reclaiming Our Democracy: Every Citizen’s Guide to Transformational Advocacy Sam Daley-Harris writes about people who met with officials on the other side of their issue, stories like these: 1)  Ellie Sparks who went from experiencing what she called “climate trauma” to meeting her members of Congress and calling the experience “sacred and profound”, and 2) Lisa Jordan who, after meeting with Congressional offices in Washington, DC, said “….This work is the best medicine for when you’re feeling hopeless or have sleepless nights.  It’s the best way to avoid despair….”  Welcome, Sam Daley-Harris.

Dr. Julien Reitzenstein lives in Ireland. He teaches contemporary history at the University of Düsseldorf and political science at the University of Stuttgart. Dr. Reitzenstein is the founder of the non-profit academic organization History & Documentation. In addition to academic conference series, research and publication projects, he is editing a four-volume English-language handbook Ideologies in National Socialism. Several hundred scholars are participating from numerous countries. Dr. Reitzenstein regularly organizes commemorative projects, and advises international companies and law firms on corporate social responsibility and restitution of looted property. He also writes for major newspapers and magazines, such as WELT, Neue Zürcher Zeitung, Cicero and Fair Observer.

In an enlightening episode of The Dr. Rod Berger Show, presented by Fair Observer, we ventured into a deep analysis of global reactions following a significant U.S. election. This discussion, featuring Atul Singh, Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Fair Observer, offered rich insights into the various international perspectives shaped by the electoral outcomes.

The Dr. Rod Berger Show with Jonas Helmikstøl is a special on-location episode from Oslo, Norway. Jonas joined me on stage for the keynote interview at StartUp Lab's Climate Tech Summit 2030, part of Oslo Innovation Week, presented by the Oslo Business Region. 
Helmikstøl is the now infamous co-founder of Easee, the near-unicorn company out of Norway that was rocketing across European households with its home EV charging units...until they weren't. This is the backstory about a man and a company holding on for dear life. 

Dr. Rod Berger Show with Atul Singh.
Atul Singh is the founder, CEO, and editor-in-chief of Fair Observer. He has taught political economy at the University of California, Berkeley, and has been a visiting professor of humanities and social sciences at the Indian Institute of Technology, Gandhinagar.
Atul studied philosophy, politics, and economics at the University of Oxford on the Radhakrishnan Scholarship and did an MBA with a triple major in finance, strategy, and entrepreneurship at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.
He worked as a corporate lawyer in London and served as an officer in India’s volatile border areas where he had a few near-death experiences. Atul has also been a poet, playwright, sportsman, mountaineer and a founder of many organizations. His knowledge is eclectic, and his friends often joke that it comes in handy when access to Google is limited.

Join us for a fascinating discussion with Dr. Alan Waring. Here's just a snapshot of the discussion in today's episode of The Dr. Rod Berger Show:
Dr. Rod Berger: How do you view the current socio-political climate regarding risk and authority?
Dr. Alan Waring: There’s a worrying trend of ideological cocooning and apathy among younger generations, leading to a lack of engagement and reluctance to challenge authoritarian tendencies. This apathy dilutes the collective ability to tackle critical issues. Reviving curiosity and active discourse is vital in combating these trends.
 
Dr. Alan Waring is a retired risk analyst who has extensive international consulting experience with government departments, corporations, and institutions. He is the author of several books on risk and has also edited and contributed to the three-volume The New Authoritarianism: A Risk Analysis, published by Ibidem from 2018–2021. He is an Adjunct Professor at the Centre for Risk and Decision Sciences (CERIDES), European University Cyprus.